Are Torpedo Boat usefull ?

From a post who I make on official ForumTW (http://forums.totalwar.com/showthread.php/64757-Are-torpedo-boats-any-good?p=595734#post595734)

I will try to replay to both : DenmarkRules and AIJabberwock in a single post, step by step. Both of them are basically wrong, once it come down to real things who occur in MP battles.
1 "They are useless in mp. Any good player that is just a little aware can dodge them without problems "
I will start by this: on island maps, the torpedo boats (tb on future) MAKE THE RULES; Any MP guy know the severe penalty on speed/and maneuverability near rocks on island maps. Bigger the ship, lower the speed & maneuverability. That make a gun boat (gb on future) or a tb "supersonics" compared with Roanoke, Ocean, Kotetsu, and Hypersonic s - when we compare with Warrior (I always say : to use Warrior on any island maps its suicide). The tb on island maps can hide behind rocks, and IF any big ship try to pass by, they just can sneak-out and shoot&kill - even if she can shoot only one volley of 3 torpedo's. We all know a pair can kill anything who float on all the game.
Now, on the Japan Sea, things are different, since a player who use tb are exposed to the long range shoots of Kotetsu spammers. BUT lets consider some facts, who any top player on Fots Naval will know :

a) range - the tb range are equal to Kotetsu - and superior to any other ship (Ocean and Roanoke - only 850).

b) H key shoot. Top players will use this to make a "volley" of 3 torpedo's - the last one with much better accuracy, in a angle of 45º right of left: here the idea of "dodge them without problems" can work, sure, on long - mid range, BUT on short range 9 of 10 cases a big ship (big - i mean bigger then a gun boat!) - that last torpedo will kill you. Bigger the ship - less chances to avoid a short range 3 torpedo shoot. A decent skilled player will kill you 9 of 10 cases on short range, with H key - if you allow him to come close. So, I will say: almost nobody can dodge a skilled player who manage to come near you with a tb - this are a fact. So, stop dreaming about "dodging" torpedo's on short range. If the target are an regular Kotetsu, an Roanoke or Warrior - you are dead. The only ship who still have a chance on short range are Admiral Kotetsu with 7000 hull and a pro three build (points on speed). Right after are Ocean, who can use his ram speed BUT that work only on "almost" short range AND with free path for the run-away maneuver. That bc skilled players will put a small - expendable ship - in your way just to make you slow / or immobilize (stay put to better aim you)... BUT in a real short distance ( thats mind 1-2 boat length distance) - are no escape vs a pro guy. That because he will aim the pair on the middle of your hull AND the third one on the point where your ship WILL BE - IF you try to run away. And do not think of reverse speed. Thats way to slow to allow you any escape.

Now, lets debug other false idea of "useless torpedo boats" on MP:
"... If the enemy in MP is conscious of the differential in destructive power, his concentration.... should switch to Torp boats that come within firing range..." Thats assuming (lol) the tb ARE coming closer, in your range - since tb has 1000 range - and only Kotetsu can counter them on long range. What here are "forgotten" are a common "scenario" on MP (but we can ignore here since this happen and the OP ahead ignore this): skilled players shoot 1-2-3-4 volleys when they are OUT of your range, then stop/wait until the opponent are forced to concentrate on avoiding the torpedo's: so, now, on real world, the pro players will charge you ONLY when you are in a hard task of: a) keep an eye on torpedo traces - calculate the angles
b) concentrate on manual aiming/shooting since you cant let the AI on performing this task for you ! Why ? Bc AI are STUPID ! AI will NOT target the most dangerous ship BUT the most close one ! So, if the enemy use the common "gb screen" - thats are a spread formation of gun-boats on "kamikaze" rush and the real threat - tb - BEHIND them - then the stupid AI will target the gb (closer ships) and will allow the real dangerous ones (tb) to come on close distance. So, when we assume a pro guy will ignore all but tb -remember - thats mind you must take personal control of aiming/shooting AND in the same time - "dance" to avoid the running torpedo's already on water. Not a easy task. But hey, lets assume one are skilled to do that with no big efforts.
And here we will come to the second and third attack who a tb core build allow: Ramming and flanking !
Ram Maneuver: - A tb core build, usually will come like this, in a 18 k battle:
- a big Ironclad (Roanoke or Ocean) - 10k
- 3 tb (max nr allow) - 3,6 k
- 4 gun boats (gb) - (for "screen" purpose) - 2 k
- a decoy ship - usual a 2200 wood (or a pair of real useless ships - 1k corvette)
Now, imagine the double scenario: with a Warrior or with a 4 kotetsu spammer.
The Warrior scenario - here its about suicide. Just that. On equal skills - a Warrior will loose 10 of 10 fights. Why ? Lets imagine the player its "torpedo top-dancer" : (here you can face a top Warrior player, Stelof-lsd, a real good Canadian player - who are the best on avoiding torpedo's with the Warrior); Yes you may be able to a) avoid the torpedo.s on water
b) on the SAME time, with manual aim&shoot - to kill all
3 torpedo boats BEFORE they come close to you.
Its a hard, hard task, I can assure you. Not like here people think - "try to get closer to launch from a deadly distance" - a pro player will shoot all but last pair BEFORE to come close ! Hell, I do myself shoot first 2-3 volleys of 5 BEFORE to reach the red-line of 1000 range ! Why ? Two important reasons:
a) like on other great naval strategy games - Silent Hunter - one must aim where the enemy ship WILL BE on the time when your torpedo will reach that distance ! Thats mind, you can easily shoot 1-2 volleys BEFORE the red line of range bc you already create, like that, an "interdiction zone" for the enemy units ! Your opponent will be forced to do an avoiding maneuver in a specific moment - and that only bring you strategic advantages.
b) psychological factor: any opponent MUST make a mental note "I must stop/reverse/avoid" that path - this will disrupt his formation/line, will create an extra stress - and will let you a door open for the last attack.

Now, lets return to our skilled Warrior who manage to avoid all torpedo's on water, and also kill all 3 tb before they come close.
What happen on the mid time with other ships ? Your Admiral and your Roanoke / or Ocean ? They just stay watching the Warrior dance ? NOP. On the same time, right when you shoot the first row of torpedo's, your Admiral enter in a ram cruise on max speed, targeting - yes the very same Warrior. You must synchronize the ramming attack with the last wave of torpedo's - so the Warrior will face a really hard decision: what are better: kill all tb ? bc here we see this " ....'****ing everything BUT the torpedoes..."
Bad decision, bc the Admiral Kotetsu can easily send to the bottom the mighty Warrior in just few seconds, if he manage a ram. Even if the Warrior, with a last blast, kill the ramming attacker - this let us where ? Then what ? A sinking Warrior lets us with an Kotetsu Admiral vs a heavy Ironclad (Roanoke or Ocean) - on best scenario. Like you see, I do not even mention gun boats or wood corvettes. Guess who win - the single kotetsu vs a heavy Ironclad - Roanoke or Ocean. This its a 9 of 10 looses for Warrior.
The 10 of 10 its when we take Ocean. Bc now we have 3 attacks on the same time against Warrior: Torpedo's, Admiral Kotesu ramming attack, Ocean ramming attack. In a very special day, 1 of 10, Warrior may kill all torpedo boats, all gun boats, avoid all torpedo.s, avoid Kotetsu ramming attack and kill him, kill Roanoke after. 1 of 10. Or less. BUT never he will manage to stop the 3th ram attack. And here, do not think on ramming the Ocean. That ship have an "anti-ramming" bug: any other ship who try to ram Ocean will get killed in process... one of the game bugs...

And now - the last case - 4 kotetsu spammers. The general idea are "kotetsu are OP" or Kotetsu core kill all. WRONG. Thanks to the tb patch (who dramatically reduce the cost of the tb) - now any player can afford 3 tb AND a big ironclad (Roanoke or Ocean) AND some extra "wood". That allow the torpedo core to carry on the same 3 attacks in a single rush, but with a bit different strategy, ans still with the same deadly precision. No matter the skills of the 4 kotetsu player, the tb core will simply destroy him on 7-8 cases of 10 - if not even more. Here the most important thing are the gb screen - 3-4-5 gb ahead, spread, who will "take" the shoots from the 4 kotetsu ventral gun. Bc Kotetsu gun are the best one in-game (range&power) - its almost sure one will loose fast the screen - and then if you face a pro player, its a big chance he will target manual the tb first. Lets take this the case - a pro player (like the top guys from (now extincted) clan 666. Those guys will blow all your tb fast - from long - mid range, sometimes you will see 1 shoot - one boom. BUT if they do that, they will ignore the gun boats. This its your advantage now. Here the main concern will be to "discharge" all torpedo's as fast as you can - all less the last pair . This will broke his line (and kotetsu strength are the line) - and will allow you the flanking maneuver - threating with ram and also will allow your heavy ironclad (Roanoke or Ocean) to come on flank. The kotetsu have - like Warrior the basic 2 option: ignore torpedo's and shoot/kill the flanking Roanoke - or kill the torpedo and let Roanoke to close-in on flank. In both cases - the torpedo core player get the upper hand. Easily. I attach a vid on Tube just to see how this work on practice. I hope this will help you all to better understand why 4 kotetsu players are doomed. And why the torpedo core its a "must" in 18 k battles.